500 MB Nyheder Direkte fra Internet 2/500 MB nyheder direkte fra internet CD 2.iso/start/data/text/faq-0966.txt

Text File | 1995-05-09 | 31KB | 703 lines

Archive-name: music/industrial-faq/part1
Version: 3.2
Last-modified: Apr 3, 1995
Periodicity: 20 days



   Before I let you begin, I need to make a request. I feel like the FAQ
   is getting woefully out of date. If you have any threads you are sick
   of seeing, or some info you think should be included, please tell me.

   I'd really like to see an extension on the history of Industrial
   Music.

   Future plans (we hope) should also include a listing of local
   indepenent Industrial artists.

   We especially need more info on record labels and mailorder sources.

   If you know of any please send their name, label, and an address so I
   can start compiling them.

   MORE IMPORTANT NEWS! The address to send FAQ related info has changed
   to [e-mail].

         THE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FILE FOR REC.MUSIC.INDUSTRIAL

Current Editors:

  DARRELL FUHRIMAN

   and

  ERIK HENRIKSEN

   Copies of the FAQ are available available on ftp sites, on the Web and
   on request. Comments, corrections, and queries regarding this file
   should be sent to the above address.

  NOTES ABOUT HTML VERSIONS

   Where more than one link exists for a band, I will list them below the
   section under the heading "Alternate Links". The link used in the
   listing is my own favorite of the bunch. This is a matter of my own
   personal preference so don't flame me 'cause I'll ingore it.

   This is really a moot point anyway... I don't have multiple
   references...

   The original versions of the FAQ were maintained by Dan Kletter,
   [e-mail].

   Many thanks to: (in no apparent order)


        Al Crawford             Mason Jones             Jeff Dauber
        David Vessell           Dave Stein              Greg Earle
        Adam Weitzman           Rob Vaughn              Seth Robson
        Joshua Buerge           "Uncle Klaus"           Dave Datta
        Valerie Ohm             Andrew Russ             Adrian Le Hanne
        Leo Breebaart           Ben Cox                 Terry Reed
        Mark Gunderson          John Davison            Kritt Gierlefzen
        Georg Wallmann          "hortonee"              Jutta Degener
        <X>orcist               Paul Moore              Anders Holmberg
        Franck Arnaud           "@Man"                  Bob Haskins
        Piotr T. Prussak        Jennifer Davis          Jester
        Michael Lucas           Pete Ashdown            Peter Cigehn
        Kevin                   "white law"             Michael Gendreau



   If there is anyone that I have forgotten, my apologies.

  TABLE OF CONTENTS

   PART 1 - Frequently Asked Questions File:
    1. Other periodic postings
    2. Intro
    3. History
    4. Charter
    5. RMI CD Status
    6. Important Facts
    7. FTP servers
    8. Mailing Lists



   PART 2 - Directory of Record Labels/Mail Order Sources/Contacts:
    1. Major Record Labels
    2. Distributors and Smaller Record Labels
    3. Mail Order Sources and 'Zines






     _________________________________________________________________

  [1] OTHER PERIODIC POSTINGS



   You are currently reading the "offical" r.m.i. FAQ. Other regular
   postings include:

   Jester's Net Industrial/EBM/Cyber Culture Band list, available from
   [e-mail]. The list covers those bands on the net, and
   includes reviews of their various work. The list is posted monthly.

   The Top Sample Sources List is a list of the most popular movies,
   tv-series, presidents and other sample sources. The popularity is
   based on how frequently spoken lines from these sources have been
   sampled and used in some sort of musical context. The list has been
   compiled by Peter Cigehn, mainly by the help of and contributions from
   the readers of r.m.i. Currently the list consists of hundreds of
   sources and nearly 1000 different samples. The latest version of the
   list can be obtained directly from Peter Cigehn by e-mail,
   [e-mail]. Although the prefered way to obtain a copy
   is by reading r.m.i. where the list is posted about once a month, or
   by Web at one of the following servers:

     * Sewden
     * Norway
     * UK
     * USA
     * Canada


     _________________________________________________________________

  [2] INTRO

   "In the gap caused by the failure of punk rock's apocalyptic rhetoric,
   [the term] 'industrial' seemed like a good idea."--Jon Savage, London
   1983

   Experimental. Aggro. Techno. Cutups. Alternative. Noise. Ambient.
   Musique Concrete. Sound Collages. Avant Garde. Performance Art.
   Difficult. Improv. Industrial?

   So many names and so many labels. It gets confusing when from all
   around us, publications continue to spew out more complex and
   different names in an attempt to pinpoint a source, while at the same
   time converging on one obvious thought: industrial. To demonstrate
   this idea, we could even trace these origins of industrial back to
   dadaism if we wanted to. This FAQ file is less an attempt to force
   people into their place and more to widen the flow of information.
   Sharing the precious information allows us to experience more in our
   learning than by strange militaristic actions.


     _________________________________________________________________

  [3] HISTORY

   It is generally accepted that the term "industrial music" was coined
   in 1976 when members of Throbbing Gristle formed Industrial Records.
   It was to be a vehicle to explore a new form of expression through
   analysis, presentation and aural stimulation. All of the individuals
   involved used different means to achieve their goals, but the ideas
   they shared were on common ground. Examples of early people on the
   industrial label include Monte Cazzazza, Clock DVA, Cabaret Voltaire ,
   Throbbing Gristle, Leather Nun, and William S. Burroughs. Although
   critics felt they were too deviant, their brand of confrontation
   signaled a desire for a change in the political and social system
   currently in place. However bleak and distressing, their music was
   merely a reflection of the society that surrounded them. But what's
   really important is that they cultivated ideas on topics ranging from
   serial killing to sex and censorship as well as countless others which
   are not encouraged in genteel discussions. This was the first strike
   against the information war launched by the propaganda leaders and it
   positioned them as more than just a musical movement, but an
   alternative culture. To paraphrase, these essential ideas are the
   makeup for the movement:

   Organizational Autonomy. A conscious choice to record independently.
   To preserve the intention of music and to take it away from the
   tainted and greedy major record companies who enjoyed success at
   others expense.

   Access to Information. With the perception of control techniques
   leaving any physical boundaries and moving into the realm of the mind
   and the mouth, it was of vital importance to discuss and be aware at
   all times.

   Use of Synthesizers and Anti-Music. Using found materials and
   unconventional means of composition industrial music was more
   antagonistic to its intended audience, than being music true itself.
   It was "sounds without content".

   Extra-Musical Elementrs. Because television has become a more powerful
   agent of control than any pop music song, the use of films and video
   arrangements often accompanied these aural counter attacks.

   Shock Tactics. The final blow in the scheme for control has to be the
   use of hitting home what you have to say, making sure that it gets
   noticed. By far, this last technique is what is most often used by
   modern day "industrialists" and most probably the connecting puzzle
   piece that gave them such a distinction at all. Unfortunately, we've
   all witnessed death and war so often in this day and age, that we're
   far too jaded to care, rendering such an attempt almost useless.

   Does this mean that industrial is now dead? Perhaps. But it cannot
   prevent the presence of their past actions from being muted or lost.
   In the early to late 80's a number of other groups began to interpret
   some of the audio ideas to formulate their own territorial grounding.
   Mixing the use of new technology, imaginative found (or homemade)
   materials, and the incorporation of percussion and rhythm helped guide
   it into the new decade. Examples of some of these bands would include:
   Non, SPK, Einstuerzende Neubauten, Test Department, Laibach, Rhythm
   and Noise, Ono, and Trial.

   By the end of the 80's, "industrial music" had more than just changed,
   it had more or less, continued to progress and evolve alongside its
   society. These days, it has often come to be known as electronic
   instrumentation used to create a form of dance beats blended with
   harsh noises and sound bites such as Skinny Puppy , Revolting Cocks,
   Ministry, Front 242 and Front Line Assembly. Today, there are
   musicians who create industrial music from both sides of the fence;
   and the list is ever growing.

   The fascination with noise and machinery which is so much a part of
   what one tends to think of as "classic" Industrial music had historic
   precedents. In the late 1800's ideophones (noises, concrete sounds)
   were used in orchestral music, Luii Russolo performed using his
   "intonarumore" (noise machines) (1913) and around 1920 Erik Satie used
   pistols and typewriters in the music for his surrealist play Parade.
   The twenties also brought the "Futurist" and "Machine Music" schools
   in both Italy and France. Other important historical figures include
   Edgard Varese, whose "Ionisation" (1930) was the first piece of
   Western music for percussion instruments alone and who produced an
   important tape piece called "Poeme Electronique" in 1958; the "Musique
   Concrete" works of Pierre Schaeffer and others (tape pieces made
   exclusively from electronically altering recordings of natural sounds
   like water drops, glass breaking, etc. He was also responsible for
   probably the earliest 'loop' which used groves cut into vinyl
   records); and John Cage, whose "First Construction in Metal" (for
   metallic percussion) and "Imaginary Landscape No. 4" \ (for 12 radios)
   were landmarks in American music.

   [ for more information about industrial (experimental) music/history/
   culture there are a few books you can read:

   TAPE DELAY - SAF Publishing Ltd. (ISBN 0 946719 02 0)
   REsearch #4/5: Burroughs/TG/Brion Gysin (ISBN 0-940642-05-0)
   REsearch #6/7: The Industrial Culture Handbook (ISBN 0-940642-07-7)
   REsearch #8/9: J.G. Ballard (ISBN 0-940642-08-5)
   REsearch #11: Pranks! (ISBN 0-940642-10-7)


   for more info on how to contact REsearch Publications or SAF
   Publishers, see the directory listing in Part 2.]




     _________________________________________________________________

  [4] CHARTER



   rec.music.industrial is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote
   for creation by 411:80 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 23
   May 1991.

   For your newsgroups file:
   rec.music.industrial Discussion of all industrial-related music
   styles.

   The charter, culled from the call for votes:

   Rec.music.industrial is for the discussion of all industrial-related
   music styles, including traditional industrial (i.e. Einstuerzende
   Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire , etc.),
   dance-industrial ('cyberpunk' i.e. Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Front 242,
   Foetus, etc.) and hard techno music (i.e. Kraftwerk, etc.). Reviews of
   new releases, related news items, concert information, and other types
   of discussion are encouraged.


     _________________________________________________________________

  [5] RMI CD STATUS



   The RMI-CD(s) now have their own home page.


     _________________________________________________________________

  [6] IMPORTANT FACTS



     * The ADRV in Crash Worship's name stands for "Adoracion de Rotura
       Violenta," which more or less means "Crash Worship" in Spanish.

     * No member of Front 242 is a member of Bigod 20. Jean-Luc DeMeyer,
       the lead singer of Front 242, was a guest on Bigod 20's song 'The
       Bog,' and he sang it and wrote the lyrics. Aside from the
       similarities in the two bands' music, this is the only direct
       connection between the two bands. (And also the fact that they are
       five-letter words followed by numbers.)

     * There is some confusion over what is at the end of Front 242's
       album TYRANNY FOR YOU. According to Transmission 242
       originally,the songs were called simply 'Bonus Track I' and 'Bonus
       Track II.' However, upon further prodding, they replied that the
       pieces do have titles. The first one is called 'Hard Rock.' The
       second one, according to the letter received, is called 'Trigger
       3.' However, it is believed that this is a misprint, and instead
       it should be called 'Trigger 1,' because the band had released a
       (longer) song also called 'Trigger 3' on one of their TRAGEDY
       remix EPs.

     * The footage for the video to 'Mindphaser' by Front Line Assembly
       was taken from the Japanese movie 'Gunhed.' Gunhed stands for 'Gun
       UNit Heavy Elimination Device'. The original release was in Japan
       in July 1989. The US version followed in 1991.

     * Laibach's politics does not take sides in anything. Laibach is
       part of a collective of artists called NSK or Neue Slowenische
       Kunst. Upon entrance you are supposed to get rid of your political
       views. Laibach are merely 'by-standers' and commentators in our
       world of chaos. The most important point though is that
       totalitarianism and oppression are not exclusive to facism but
       also to: communism, christianity and capitalistic consumerism.

       Since the entire NSK bases its work on the retro principle, it
       means that the facist imagery is real (taken from actual Nazi art)
       and the music also is based on music originally not composed by
       Laibach. The most clear cut examples are: the Beatles, Queen, and
       Opus; the glorified Macbeth is nothing more than a re-make of some
       classical stuff.

       What makes Laibach very unique though, is the overall designs of
       their work. They ususally manage to collage one idea with its
       opposite. Some of the artwork included on their disks was
       originally done by anti-Nazi activists; however, its
       out-of-context use leads one to associate it with Nazis. Laibach
       stresses the idea that one can't be sure of the real meaning of
       symbolism, that no one knows all of the history.

       There are at least two radically different versions of Kapital,
       the CD version is missing a track and most tracks are remixed from
       the MC version.

     * The proper spelling for the band Negativland is without the 'e'.
       Their name was lifted from the Neu album BLACK FOREST GATEAU. On
       that album one can find tracks named "Negativland" and "Seeland."
       The first one is obviously the band name, and the second is the
       name of the band's record label (before they signed to SST, of
       course). Negativland means "negative country" or "country of
       negativity" in German and Seeland means "country of the sea."

     * It is important to note that Nine Inch Nails is essentially one
       person, Trent Reznor from Cleveland (he does tour with a band but
       they don't appear on the album Pretty Hate Machine). However, on
       the more recent albums, Reznor is joined by other
       performers/producers on various songs (Martin Atkins plays some
       drums on Broken, J.G. Thirlwell remixed two songs on Fixed, Adrian
       Belew plays guitar on a couple songs from The Downward Spiral).

     * Butt Fuck Parlor Time (a.k.a. BFPT) is not a real NIN album.

     * The correct definition of Einstuerzende Neubauten is "collapsing
       new buildings" where "collapsing" is an adjective, not a verb.
       examples:

        einstuerzen
                v., to collapse

        einstuerzende
                adj., collapsing, in a state of collapse



     * According to the radio-promo release of 'Interim' the name is
       pronounced: INE-SHTUR-ZEN-DEH NOY-BOUT-TEN

     * "Neubauten" generally refers to buildings built in a particular
       style, rather than to any recently constructed buildings. The
       style in question is the impersonal concrete-box modernist style.
       Most housing projects (especially the huge towers built in the
       60's) are perfect examples of Neubauten.

     * Einstuerzende Neubauten chose their name when the Berlin
       'Kongresshalle' collapsed around 1980. The building is located
       close to the Reichstag and was a gift of the US allies to the city
       of Berlin. The Kongresshalle is shaped a bit like an oyster, was
       used for all kinds of exhibitions and meetings and finally
       collapsed due to its cheap 60's concrete/metal construction. A
       journalist died, a few more were injured and several cars were
       smashed. After a rather long public discussion the Berlin
       government decided to rebuild the Kongresshalle since it was a
       symbol for the friendship between Germany and the US.



       Additionally, to be strictly correct on a Western keyboard, it
       should be Einstuerzende (the proper way to indicate an umlaut [δ]
       over the 'u' is to just write it as 'ue').

       Note, that I have chosen to use the "ue" instead of " [δ]." This
       makes the formatting correct when this is converted to HTML.

     * Alain Jourgensen (of Ministry fame) is not and never was a member
       of Pigface.

     * "Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv" (I've also seen it as
       "Sozialistische Patienten Klink") or SPK named themselves after a
       group of mental patients who formed an anarchist collective
       (inspired by the Baader-Meinhoff Gang) and then blew themselves up
       trying to make explosives. Their name changed on every release to
       phrases such as "Systems Planning Korporation", "Surgical Penis
       Klinik" and "SePpuKu."

     * Concerning folks in sKINNY pUPPY: Nivek Ogre's real name is Kevin
       Ogilvie. He grew up in Calgary.


     * David Ogilvie is of no relation to Ogre, the same last names are a
       coincidence. He moved to Vancouver from Montreal in the very early
       80's. David Ogilvie's nickname is "Rave" and has been for a very
       long time. Rave's wife (Rosie) is credited as "Mowse" on the old
       CLEANSE, FOLD & MANIPULATE track 'Tear or Beat'.

     * All of the above (and the other members of the Vancouver cadre)
       are very nickname-happy. cEVIN and Dwayne both have nicknames as
       well. Other people outside the camp get branded with nicknames if
       they're around Rave or Ogre too long. Just because sometimes
       "Rave" is listed and sometimes the more formal "David Ogilvie" is
       listed doesn't mean they aren't the same person. There are credits
       that say "Ogre" just as there are credits that say "K. Ogilvie".

     * "Green guy" is a context-sensitive descriptor. It can mean a
       particularly potent form of Pot, or the person who is the delivery
       boy for said Pot. it is also used as in the credits for some pUPPY
       albums.

     * Everyone thinks that BACK AND FORTH exists in 50 copies. After
       all, it does say words to that effect on it, right? This is not
       the case. There's only 35 real copies. cEVIN made all of them
       himself. He "pooped out" after those 35, so #36-#50 don't exist.
       There's more. Of those 35 copies, there's "Mark I" and "Mark II".
       The first 10 (or was it 15?) were hand- dubbed by cEVIN from the
       four-track master. Those are the "good" ones. The remainder were
       dup'ed on a high-speed double-cassette deck, and are thus deemed
       (by cEVIN) to be of "lower quality".

     * BACK AND FORTH has been re-issued on CD. it is the first part
       along with other "rarities" and unreleased material as part of a
       "10 year Skinny Puppy retrospective CD" that is in the works. The
       BAD news is that it (B&F) is *re-mixed* and not just re-issued :-(
       It is being re-done by "Hi-Watt" Marshall, the guy who engineered
       the last Hilt album. (Rave Ogilvie is livid over this.) There are
       two flavors of the re-issued Back and Forth CD: the regular
       limited edition release and the "ultra" limited edition release
       that comes packaged in a steel box with a numbered and signed
       photo.

     * the recording of sKINNY pUPPY's AIN'T IT DEAD YET was mastered as
       one long track because it's intended to be listened to from start
       to finish, like watching a concert. In order to get the whole
       experience, you have to listen to the whole thing.

     * For LAST RIGHTS, "song 4 on side 2" of the cassette is the same
       thing as "song 10 on the CD" which is the same thing as "Left
       Handshake", the track that samples Timothy Leary from "Tune in,
       turn on, drop out" which is the same track that isn't there
       because the copyright holders on said Timothy Leary quoted speech
       rescinded permission for the band to use the samples. It may
       emerge as a one-sided 7", to be given away to people at their
       upcoming tour shows if you buy some tour merchandise; or it may
       suddenly appear out of (K)nowhere courtesy of some annoited
       bootleggers. It has also been reported that Leary is working to
       get the rights to his speech back so SP can use it. It is now
       available on the FTP site listed below.

     * Skinny Puppy does maintain an FTP site. ftp.netcom.com in the
       /pub/puppy directory.

     * Re: Tear Garden's album, TIRED EYES SLOWLY BURNING, the credits in
       vinyl copies for the song "You and Me and Rainbows" clearly state:


       Edward Ka-Spel: Voice, keyboards, tapes
       cEVIN Key: Keyboards, rhythm box, guitar, radio, tapes, voice
       D. Rudolph Goettel: Keyboards
       Lee Salford: Drums
       N. Ogre: Voice
       Lisa: Lady voice
       Rave: Guitar, tapes


       Note that "Lee Salford" was the drummer for Section 25 at one
       time, and "Lisa" is a woman who I believe was Cevin's girlfriend
       at the time.

     * 1000 Homo DJs work was originally done as an Al Jourgensen solo
       project concurrent with the LAND OF RAPE AND HONEY work. The vinyl
       EP of APATHY was released about six months post LORAH. When Al
       decided that Trent Reznor should do the vocals for 'Supernaut',
       Steve Gotlieb (president of TVT), who was already unhappy with
       Trent because of his legal filings against him, told Wax Trax that
       any productions using Trent Reznor's voice is in violation of
       Trent's contract with TVT. So the CD5 was released with the
       original Jourgenson vocals. the CD5 itself was released containing
       the two new songs, 'Supernaut' and 'Hey Asshole' as well as what
       was on the APATHY EP, 'Apathy' and 'Better Ways'.

     * KMFDM stands for Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit which in English
       means "No pity For The Majority." It has been argued that the name
       really means nothing because the liner notes for their album, WHAT
       DO YOU KNOW, DEUTSCHLAND (WaxTrax! Records) have it listed as
       meaning:

       "Kein Mehrheit fuer die Mitleid"

       however, the proper use of the prhase would be:

       "Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit"

       (mit=with,leid=pain -> Pity; Mehr=more,heit=-ness -> Majority)

       which also uses the genders correctly.

     * Other uses such as "Kill Mother Fucking Depeche Mode", "Krispy
       Mutant Fish Dealing Mescaline" or even "Kyle Minogue Fans Don't
       Masturbate" is just a joke.

     * Survival Research Labs now has an answering machine system which
       you can get info from. Unfortunately, the current messages do not
       give any dates for performances. It does however have a menu which
       allows you to get info on past shows, legal problems, being an SRL
       volunteer, and current machines working or being developed. Call:
       1 + 415 641-8065.

       They also have an FTP site, but I lost the address. If someone
       could forward it, I'd appreciate it.


     _________________________________________________________________

  [7] FTP SERVERS



     * The anonymous FTP address for the rmi FAQ is:

       rtfm.mit.edu /pub/usenet/rec/music/industrial

       Not only will you find the rmi FAQ there, you will find about
       every other FAQ as well.

       bradley.bradley.edu or (136.176.10.11)

       Contains the EFN back issues. Also present are transcribed lyrics
       (currently Ministry and Negativland) and a few discographies.

     * The discography archives are currently available via e-mail
       request from Dave Datta and/or (preferably) via anonymous FTP at:

       ftp.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4)

       The archive is organized by letter, then by name. So, if you were
       looking for Coil, you would look in:

       /pub/music/artists/c/coil

       This directory then has the following links in it:

       discog -> /pub/music/discog/c/coil
       lyrics -> /pub/music/lyrics/c/coil
       pictures -> /pub/music/pictures/c/coil
       reviews -> /pub/music/reviews/c/coil


       There are thousands of discographies in the archives as well as
       tons of lyrics at this time. Submissions are always welcome. A
       sample FTP session/help file is also available via mail request
       from the administrator.

     * The files that comprise Factsheet Five Electric (the zine of
       zines) are available for online reading or downloading from the
       WELL, via ftp from either:

       ftp.msen.com (148.59.1.8) /pub/newsletters/F5-E
       or
       src.doc.ic.ac.uk /literary/newsletters/factsheet-five

       These are freely distributable. Questions regarding F5 Electronic
       should be addressed to Jerod Pore [e-mail].

     * The general rule for all anonymous ftp sites is:
         1. When prompted for a user name, type 'anonymous'.

         2. When prompted for a password, type your full e-mail address.



   This will work for the vast majority of ftp sites, including the ones
   above.


     _________________________________________________________________

  [8] MAILING LISTS

   This list is woefully incomplete, so if you maintain a list or are on
   one let me know and I'll get it included. In no particular order:

     *

  THE NORTHWEST ELEKTRO-INDUSTRIAL COALITION:
   Posts of NEC show dates, tour schedules, band-news, bios and the NEC
       e-zine. Anything relating to Northwest Music is accepted.

       Send mail to [e-mail] with the subject subscribe
       nec full name.

     *

  SMOTHERED HOPE:
   Taking its name from the early Skinny Puppy song, it exists for the
       disucssion of (you guessed it) Skinny Puppy's music.
       [e-mail]

     *

  THE INDIE-LIST:
   The Indie-List is a digest of reviews and other info for listeners of
       idependent music (not just industrial). Requests for addition to
       the list should be sent to [e-mail] (a person, not
       a program)

     *

  GOTHIC GUITAR TAB:
    For guitarists wishing to exchange tabulature.
       [e-mail]

     *

  NET INDUSTRIALISTS:
   For all net bands on the net industrial/ebm/cybercultre band list to
       chat, share trade secrets, etc
       [e-mail]

     *

  4AD MUSIC:
   For the 4ad record label. [e-mail]
       Leave subject line blank. Place only this in message: subscribe
       4ad-1 {your name}

     *

  NINE INCH NAILS:
   Any subject, with the text only "ADD". [e-mail]


     *

  KRAFTWERK:
   A useful list maintained by Dave Datta, unmoderated, available as
       digests or individual mail.
       Requests to join to: [e-mail]

     *

  CLOUD-ZERO:
   For the discussion of Legendary Pink Dots and related projects. (Tear
       Garden, MIMIR, Delerium, Nurse With Wound) Or for anything
       inspired by the above.

       There is also an associated FTP site: ftp.cs.mcgill.edu in the
       /pub/mail-list/cloud-zero directory.
       [e-mail]

     *

  FOETUS/J.G. THIRWELL/CLINT RUNI:
   For discussion of same. [e-mail]
       (Say that three times fast.)


     _________________________________________________________________

   Last Modified: Apr 3, 1995



    Darrell Fuhriman, [e-mail]



        This FAQ copyright 1995 by Darrell Fuhriman. Permission must be
        obtained before reproducing in any non-electronic format.